Mollies With High Blood Pressure: Potassium Chloride Instead?

[Phet Phishcake]

Obviously I'm kidding with that title, but seriously, many of the fish I have were inherited and I now find myself with a tank containing mollies, platy's, tetra's, and Cory's...and even a male betta. I know what you are thinking- opposite ends of every conceivable spectrum...but all are thriving beautifully.

The town I live in provides very soft tap water with a pH around 6.4, and GH and KH ~0. Therefore, I have many options to choose what ideal chemical water conditions would "minimally" accomodate all species, using municipal water.

I decided on the following:
pH=7.0 In a messed up community tank like this, that is your only option.
KH=whatever amount of NaHCO3 (sodium hydrogen carbonate/sodium bicarbonate) it takes to make a pH of 7.0- usually this equates to a dKH value of 4 to 6, depending on how old the water is.
GH=8 I use MgSO4 (magnesium sulphate) to acheive this, as it has no bearing on KH.
Phosphates tend to be around 1ppm
Nitrates about 10-20ppm, and I use the nitrate value to determine when a partial water change needs to be performed.
NaCl (salt)=0 My logic here is that I have read that mollies can adapt to a salt-free environment, whereas cory's and some tetra's (in this case, bloodfins) cannot.

What I really want to know is, because I have read varying opinions on the adaptibility of mollies to no-salt climates (and also some opinions about platy's), what is your take on this issue, as I have to say they seem to be thriving under current conditions...

[quenton]

Well the general wisdom among those with real knowlege seems to be that needing salt for mallies is somewhat of a myth.

Somewhat in that mollies from the wild (which you almost certainly do not have) may well come from waters which very from Fresh to Ocean Salt, averaging at Brackish -- the ones we mostly buy never saw any of that environment and have no need of salt. There are lots of articles on this (and the opposite point of view).

I have kept mollies on and off for years -- my current tanks since I restarted FW last year have 3 mollies, no salt and they are quite healthy and appear quite happy. I would not concern myself with salt at all.

It may be that mollies would prefer a higher GH/KH, but I have never worried about that either.

My tank with molllies has -- 3 bala sharks, 4 h&t light tetras, 4 guppies, 1 angel, 4 whiptail cats, 3 swordtails and 3 mollies. All have been very happy for 4 months now, no illnesses, no deaths -- nobody even looks a bit unhappy.

[FreddytheFish]

I don't think the mollies will need the added salt. They can adapt from FW to BW and vice versa, and even go full marine.

[Harlock]

Do not add salt for your mollies. They simply do not need it. More modern conventions suggest that hardness may be a bigger influence on Molly health. Here's a helpful link: http://tcoletti.tripod.com/molly_salt_debate.html

[Daveedka]

Agreed with above posts. The largest mojority of mollies in the wild are freshwater, They are adaptable and can be found in all sorts of water. additionally most if not all commercial breeding fracilities are freshwater. mollies do like higher TDS levels, but the only downside you will experience is that they may not breed in Lower TDs water.

In addition to that. NaCL does not in any way simulate brackish or saltwater. There is NaCl in brackish and Saltwater, but there are also many other required elements that make up such. In other words straight Nacl has no place in any tank except when used short term as a medication for specified conditions.

You will want to provide Calcium at a higher rate than Magnesium. A 0ppm calcium environment can and will cause growth problems. The general rule of thumb I've found for plants is 4:1 0r 5:1 Ratio's of Ca to MG. You can still keep the low dGH simply by adding less MG and supplementing Gh with Ca.

The pH will make no difference really, The KH is great at 4-6 dKH but 4-6 dKH does not equate to 7.0 ph unless buffers other than Carbonate are in play, or you are forcing co2. You should be seeing slightly higher pH levels.
In planted tanks with high co2, Most folks reccomend 3 dKH as a minimum, I prefer slightly higher.
In unplanted tanks 2-3 is plenty to provide stability unless you do not do partials regularly.


Dave

[Phet Phishcake]

Originally Posted by Daveedka

Agreed with above posts. The largest mojority of mollies in the wild are freshwater, They are adaptable and can be found in all sorts of water. additionally most if not all commercial breeding fracilities are freshwater. mollies do like higher TDS levels, but the only downside you will experience is that they may not breed in Lower TDs water.

In addition to that. NaCL does not in any way simulate brackish or saltwater. There is NaCl in brackish and Saltwater, but there are also many other required elements that make up such. In other words straight Nacl has no place in any tank except when used short term as a medication for specified conditions.

You will want to provide Calcium at a higher rate than Magnesium. A 0ppm calcium environment can and will cause growth problems. The general rule of thumb I've found for plants is 4:1 0r 5:1 Ratio's of Ca to MG. You can still keep the low dGH simply by adding less MG and supplementing Gh with Ca.

The pH will make no difference really, The KH is great at 4-6 dKH but 4-6 dKH does not equate to 7.0 ph unless buffers other than Carbonate are in play, or you are forcing co2. You should be seeing slightly higher pH levels.
In planted tanks with high co2, Most folks reccomend 3 dKH as a minimum, I prefer slightly higher.
In unplanted tanks 2-3 is plenty to provide stability unless you do not do partials regularly.


Dave

What you say about additional minerals being prevalent in brackish water is absolutely true and your observations make sense.
What commercially available product would you recommend for boosting Ca, as opposed to Mg, yet not significantly affecting KH or pH?...or are you suggesting that these parameters are completely irrelevant and just use CaCO3?

[Daveedka]

All things are relevant in some way or another. CaCo3 has limitations in it's ability to deliver calcium even if We weren't at all worried about KH. CaCo3 dissolution rate is largely pH dependant, and may or may not deliver the needed amounts of Ca before it quits dissolving. For instance, Crushed coral Will quit dissolving somewhere in the range of 7.6-7.8 pH, and this usually puts the KH for me at about 4-5 dKH. But it only provides me with 30 ppm or so of Calcium above and beyond what my tap already had.


CaSO4 would be my reccomendation, CaCL is often reccomended, but in light of recent Theories I have with plants, I hesitate to reccomend CaCL really.

Dave

[Aardvark]

Been meaning to ask ever since this thread came up:


How do you fit the BP Cuff to the fish?

[Daveedka]

How do you fit the BP Cuff to the fish?