Morth American Natives tank. anyone else?

[zazz]

well, I just put fish in my 55Gal natives tank. From the Huzzah river in Missouri. According to my friend who is a missouri native human, they are a young bluegill, (2.")some shad fry. Some sort of orange marked minnow looking thing I have yet to identify. They are numerous in the rivers and I have seen them up to 3 or 4 " long. Mine are Max 1 " a tadpole, a large snail ( along with the 6 or7 zillion little snails that came on the plants) and we just discoverred in there today, some sort of very small darter , 3/4"long maybe. I beleive it rode in with the river gravel/rocks.
I put rocks/gravel and plants from the river in ther a couple of weeks ago or so. filled it with well water and have been running the filters. it may have been three weeks ago because it appear to have fully cycled.
I know I put the tadpole in there, but havent seen it since. (There are Many hiding places.) Other than that everyone seems to be adjusting very nicely so far. Still jumpy at noises/movements near the tank but otherwise comfy seeming. The bluegills color is good , not sure what he's eating. They have only ben in there about 30 Hrs. I made sure to include many tiny fry and bugs. The little fish all accept flakes! I put a little liquid fry food in there too, just for good measure.
I just wanted to post because I have been wanting this for a while and it seems to be starting out great. I caught everyone with a couple of fish tank nets yeasterday.
I would Love tips from anyone with any experience with these fish. including good websites for ID, best ways to get/keep live food . ...
The colors on that bluegill ( the local fishermen tell me its a type of perch? aka panfish. there are different varieties. they grow to maybe 6" I believe. )
anyway, its colors are beautiful. remind me of a discus almost.
We saw some in the shallows of the Merimac river the other day and a couple of 4" fellows each had a little circular depression in the gravel that they were defending from anyone nearby. mostly younger bluegill and those orangish "minnows". They seem to be very smart or at least alert fish.
I don't yet know how quickly they grow but I'm figuring it would be good to put him back before everyone else of his age has staked out his depression.
The nets BTW were new. and this tank is 100% isolated from my tropical tanks. So I do intend to release these fish at some point.

[bencozzy]

your orange marked minnows might be a species of dace, they are jumpers from experience as are shad. so take precautions.

NANFA Forum (North American Native Fishes Association)

you can do some tubbing out side to get mosquito larva. and scuds would work as well. the darter will eat cyclopeeze.

HTH
ben

[OrionGirl]

Sunfish can be very aggressive--the ones defending depressions were most likely female. The cichlid comparison is apt--they're territorial.

Check your local laws before releasing them--it's not legal in all states, and in some comes with a hefty fine.

[zazz]

Ty OG. already checked. seems to be ok here.
Yes, Bencozzy, I figured they'd jump,especially with the bluegill in there. I've seen them jump a lot outside.
I think I will try to get only larger dace ( if thats what they are, ty again Ben I will look that up) to stay in the tank, as I expect the rest of these small fellows to become Bluegill food now.
What do you think about putting guppy fry in there in addition to the bugs for the bluegill?

[OrionGirl]

Truly? If you intend to release them, I wouldn't take the risk of introducing anything from a tropical tank into these fish. JMO

[GhostKnife]

to suppliment anything thats said all 50 states have laws against releasing fish into the wild, just because your local ordinance says nothing about it does not mean there's not state repercussions as well as federal. I would not release them into the wild, find someone who'll take them. It's better and wont land you in any trouble

[zazz]

of course, O G! silly of me. I realized after I posted that. "100% isolated" does Not include feeding them guppy fry!(doh)

Thank you ghost knife, I will make sure.
turns out, according to my local "expert" that this fish IS a pumpkin seed. just young. cool.
it is Very friendly, petlike. It ate all the minnows/fry in about 2 days there were maybe 8 to 12 of them.
she's been living on frozen bloodworms, live mosquito larvae, and a little bit of flake food. ( the dog ate the derned chiclid pellets I got.
I will replenish minnow supply as soon as I get a chance.
Someone caught for me, what they tell me is a young darter, and a young chub. They now share the tank. Any idea what they eat?

[bencozzy]

darters are fairly adaptable as far as food goes they should eat most anything frozen, mine are eating frozen mysis and cyclopeeze. they have just recently started "tasting" the flake foods that i offer them.

the chubs should eat anything you offer them.

[Mr Aquarium]

Darters you should try to feed them very hi protine foods, they do not do well on less protine stuff.

Alot of people are dumping non native fish after fishing trips, a group of guys here in our fish club that go out collecting for natives found a nice mess of ruby reds month ago or so,
even though it's not right to dump them, they did look 50 times better then store bought ones, And in the same trip they brought something back I swore was guppys,
we found out later that night by another fish guru in our club who stopped by that the DNR has been introdused mosquito fish into the waters in our area, which I thought was cool, now I can go collecting for them instead of having them shipped in for my pond.

If you happen across any central stone rollers down your way let me know, might have to round up the guys n come down that way, i know someone who really wants one

[Riverfishgirl]

If you live or collect in Missouri this is a good reference for identifying fish:

Mofwis Search Results

You can search by county and each fish lists which waterways they've been spotted or collected in so you're not just searching blindly on google for what you think you might have.
Honestly you need to be identifying these fish before you collect them. There are few protected and endagered species in Missouri, and you can get in trouble for collecting them, not to mention it's just plain poor ethics. Darters can be almost impossible to identify, and so can some minnows. A good way to identify without taking the fish, since you can't re-release them, is to get a field guide. Another way, if your field guide is of little help, or you don't have one, is to take a picture of the fish, release it, and then post it online (Nanfa.org is a good native fish website) to identify it. If you know the area you caught it it shouldn't be any problem to go back and find one.
Me and my husband have actually taken to snorkelling, so we can see the fish underwater, know what habitat and place they tend to frequent, and see if there's anything we can collect. Not to mention it's fun! It's actually more fun to watch the fish in their natural enviroment in a way than put them in an aquarium.

If you have any questions on the fishing regulations or anything else here I'd be glad to help or find a source for you.
I have personal connections to several conservation agents and other staff of the Missouri Department of Conservation as well, so if I can't answer the questions myself I could easily find someone that can.

I don't suggest putting native snails in with your fish since they can be an intermediate host for certain parasites. The fish you've been told is a pumpkinseed could also be a longear, since a lot of people tend to mix them up. A longear will have a long black ear flap (the spot behind the gill), a pumpkinseed has a smaller black spot, kind of like a bluegill that often has a reddish edge.

And I agree, don't release fish, natives or not, even into the same place you found them. This is highly against the law and definately frowned upon ethically. Either find them proper housing, a new home (a private pond that isn't connected to any other waterways can work), or humanely euthanize them.

Oh yeah. Don't use Mofwis to figure out whether a fish is a game fish or not (you can't legally net game fish, but can keep them if legally caught). While the information on there in general is really good, they have the gamefish/nongamefish designations messed up. Some of the fish listed as game fish in fact are NOT and can be legally netted. I'm currently trying to track someone down to see if the mistakes can be changed, or at least asked why they're designated that way on there.

According to the Missouri regulations, anything listed as "Other Fish" (Meaning non-game fish, bait fish, non-endagered/protected fish, or fish with specific regulations pertaining to them) can be caught by dip-net, sein, or cast net.

Rules and definitions can be found here:
http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/cu...sr/3c10-20.pdf

Fishing regulations can be found here:
http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/cu...csr/3c10-6.pdf

Those pages come from this site:
Missouri Code of State Regulations: Title 3 - Department of Conservation

Missouri Department of Conservation Should have links to anything else you're looking for.

Individual waterways often have seperate regulations, so make sure the rules apply to wherever you're collecting.