What am I doing wrong??? What should I do different??

[nursie]

It's day 3 of the new discus. I'm not doing something right...they still look stressed and I am fearful for them. they are still huddling by the heater and water intake for the filter. I checked the water parameters last night and found my ammonia between 0.25 and 0.5, didn';t wait for the nitrite level to develop and started a 50% water change. This morning, I just did the water change. My heater...even though I turned it up to 87 this am is only warming the tank up to 82 or 3. I added the little 7.5 watt heater to try and push it up some more. WHen I do my water changes..they look even more stressed. I try to get the temp as close to water temp as possible. I checked the ammonia again tonight and got 0.25 before the water change.
What I usually do with water changes is to put the Prime in the tank and run the fresh water in. This am...the bushynose plecs in the tank were darting up to the surface while the water was running back in to the tank. I ran it in at about a 1/3 the rate I did this morning. I fed them with the filter still off. One of them ate quite a bit...but the other 3 didnt, at least not while I was watching.
I fed them the tetra bits that they have been used to eating...and I gave them some bloodworms last night. They didn't eat many...but I noticed that what was on the filter intake was cleaned off this am.
THeir eyes seem somewhat cloudy.
I did add a clump of java moss in addition to the plants to try use up waste.
The bushynoses seem to be eating well.

this is a 29 gallon tank..I elected to put them in quarentine here instead of adding to my established 55 gallon, and I put all the fish in..4 discus and 4 bushynose plecs as they were tankmates already. The tank had been going for a couple of weeks with the plants..and I put filter media from my 55 into the filter.

Suggestions?? What else can I do??

[wesleydnunder]

Keep doing your water changes and keep the ammonia level down. Baby discus stress easily and sometimes take a while to bounce back. Also, I've found that when they're nervous like that they may not eat with me watching, so I add food then go to the other side of the room or even leave the room entirely.

Did you move them to QT to treat them? I thought you had them in the 55.

Mark

[DaKineDiscus]

Mark is correct Michelle. Water changes are most important right now. Usually when the eyes cloud over that is usually the problem WATER Quality. Is there any way that you can age the water prior to using it? Although I have to do the same as you do when I run out of aged water it never affects them. I have a 300 g storage tank but after changin 50% 2 times a day I go through it really quick.

Ike

[nursie]

I have an 18 gallon rubbermaid tub I can use, but it won't be warm. I'll go out and get a heater for it.
I didn't put them in the 55 as I had other fish in it, and decided to quarentine in the 30 first. I have not put any meds in.
I peeked around the corner at the tank and the little dickens were out swimmimg in the tank....no clamped fins.
I go in the room...they dash back to the area of the tank they huddle in and clamp their fins down....hmmm...

[nursie]

Am I doing enough water changes? I'm going for every 12 hours. Should I up it??

[wesleydnunder]

Yep,that's them all right. They can be really spooky. The good news is they come out and explore while you're out of the room. Keep doing what you're doing and in a 29g you may want to test your water often just to make sure amm and nitrite don't catch you by surprise. Sounds like you're gonna be a great discus mom.

Mark

[nursie]

thanks Wes..if I don't become a crazy one first.
I'm testing daily for the present.

[nursie]

*sigh* I think one of the smaller ones is dying. It was out at the front of the tank and I thought oh good...they are coming out. The eyes were clear..irises pale...and then it started to float to the top on it's side. When I moved a leaf to look at it, it darted to the bottom with the others..but I could see that it is struggling. 2 of the others seem to be looking less stressed. the other small one looks rather dark to me..almost if trying to blend in with the back of the tank.
Did water change this am...and fed them. the 7.5 watt heater didn't so anything, so I pulled the one I had on my 10 gallon and added it. The temp seems to drop overnight to 80...I finally figured out it's becasue the lights are not on. Duh. Apparently it's maxing out the heater I have, so I'll get a bigger one. anything else to pick up at the lfs?? Should I treat with metrodiazonale?? I don't really see much from anyone as far as poo goes.

[wesleydnunder]

Don't know about the med. Keep up the water changes and feedings. Get the temp up to at least 84 and keep it there. Make sure your new water is the same temp as the tank before you introduce it. They may be feeling a "chill".

Sometimes one fish in a group will shock more than the others. It doesn't mean anything was done wrong.

Try to stay optimistic, Michele. Things will settle down...eventually.

Mark

[DaKineDiscus]

Hi Michelle, its hard for me to respond when you are already getting the best info from Mark. Great job Mark. What wattage is the heater you are using. I usually use a 300 watt for a 90g tank or two 250 watt.


Ike

[wesleydnunder]

In larger tanks I use two heaters also. That way if one fails the tank temp doesnt rise or fall too quickly, depending whether it failed in the "on" or "off" mode. Glad to see some more discus keepers on the site, Ike.

Mark

[nursie]

A question..if certain young discus gobbled down several pieces of dry food will it make them float?? Like on their side? I called home to check on the situation and my daughter tells me they all look fine, no one's floating

Thanks for your support, guys. Sorry for being a whiney pain...but I really appreciate the help.

[wesleydnunder]

Never heard of that one, Nursie. I think it's more likely it was disoriented momentarily. Had you just turned on the light?

If they're out and swimming. that's a good sign.

And you're not being a whiney pain. I'd rather see you concerned than ambivalent. Keep asking questions and please keep posting pics.

Mark

[nursie]

I had just turned on the lights, and was starting to syphon water out for the am water change. Maybe that was it.... thanks...
I'll post some more pics tonight.

[Brilliant]

Hey,
Maybe you should turn the lights off. I kept my lights off for two or three days on arrival. I was told once to leave the lights off when they first arrive and so far its worked well.

Sounds like they are sticking together, mine were practically lifeless out of the bag then came about within a few hours and they seemed to comfort one another. Things should get better.

Did you try live brine shrimp? That should really wake em up, any fish I have is delighted to get the live brine...the should show some enthusiasm by now.

Good job peeking on them, if they are just being shy thats one thing but if they continue to huddle there may be something wrong.

I would recommend the stealth heaters for heating source water, the reason being is they are shatteproof. You will be happy it is when you forget to turn it off or something...this heater is made for this application.

I use RENA Excel 300w heaters even in my 29g all the way to my 90g. I have no problems hitting 90F+

I hope they come around. Dont worry so much things start out rough and then they get much much better. I was soo worried when I first got mine...

[nursie]

Thanks for the lights off tips. I'm going to the lfs after work for a few things!! Not sure where to get live brine shrimp

[HRT]

If you are in the middle of a cycle and that is why you are still getting ammonia and nitrite readings, perhaps you should switch filter media from a more established tank (such as your 55g). That is going to do more to make the fish comfortable than almost anything else you can do. I always keep a couple of extra sponge filters and Aquaclears with sponges going for just such a purpose.

In addition to live brine shrimp, my discus find frozen and freeze-dried bloodworms, and even Tetra color bits, to be highly appealing. If you can't find live food, try the others.

Get a heater and an airstone for your water aging tub, by the way. Order online as opposed to in a store, and you will save a ton of money. If you have chlorine, the airstone will help get rid of it. If you have chloramines, aeration doesn't really help, except to keep the water circulating and at an even temperature throughout the container while you treat with the appropriate chemicals.

[DaKineDiscus]

Michelle, it is common for flake food to cause some bloating with discus if the flakes are not soaked. I had this happen a few times with discus that came up to the surface to get the food. To fix this I would put the flake in to the water instead of just dropping it in. I dont feed flake food to the discus anymore but my angels cant get enough of it.

Ike

[nursie]

Harry...thank for the response. I did put filter media from the 55 in this filter, and driftwood and plants too. It's gotta be going through another cycle becasue of going from no fish to 8 fish, but I felt I needed to quarentine them instead of putting into an established tank. maybe I should have put directly in the 55? I could now, but I'm afraid of stressing them more.
I have the frozen blood worms and the tetra color bits. they are eating some, and they eat better when we leave the room We've been checking...they clean it up when we are gone.

Ike..what about the tetra color bits? Should I soak those?? I could...

[TwoTankAmin]

Discus will take a while to settle into a new tank. Mine used to hide and would flee when I approached the tank. Now I literally have to push them out of the way when I work on their tank. Smaller discus seem happiest in larger groups, so having only three may also be contributing to the stress factor of a new environment with fewer tankmates. Time should fix that also.

They do need warmer water so get that heater ASAP. Get more watts than you think you need. They also need clean water with 0 ammonia or nitrites. If you can't get your's down, look into Amquel + which should detoxify both - and mess up your test kit readings as well.

Discus are not normally agressive eaters. They can better be described as grazers. I often see uneaten food on the bottom of the tank shortly after feeding but I rarely see it there an hour or two later. Because of this it is best to feed them smaller amounts several times a day (this may also help to alleviate your cycling issues).

Unlike many discus mavens, I only do about three water changes a week of about 35-40%. But I am lucky, I have well water that needs no treatment to be used. All the water changes you are now doing may be contributing somewhat to their stress levels so they are taking more time to settle in. If you have the time for it you may want to do your changes more slowly and more often but in lesser quantites. This should be less disruptive than 50% each go.

Just as an FYI- discus can take both heat and high salt levels. My first choice of treatment when needed is often 90-92 degree temps and as much as 3 cups of salt in 10 gals of water. The bn and plants wont like this however should you need to try it.

I am sure you know, but discus are not fans of bright light or much current. These can both raise their discomfort levels. Sponge filters are ideal for discus.