Schooling fish not schooling

onepawnup · 05-09-2006, 10:25 PM

I have 9 tiger barbs and 6 neon tetras that dont seem to really school ,
also Have an upside down catfish that ive only seen in the upright position
Im thinking that i dont have anything in the tank large enough to scare them into schooling
other than the above the tank has
one gold gourami
3 opaline gourami
2 paradise gaourami
2 pictus cats (4inch) will move when larger
4 otto cats
3 baby black mollies
5 guppies

anything I can add that will make them school ?
fyi I have no luck with angels

Thanks in advance
Onepawnup

joephys · 05-09-2006, 10:44 PM

For the neons, try getting 3-5 more and see if its improves things. They are so small it won't really add much in the way of bio load to the tank.

SnakeIce · 05-09-2006, 10:49 PM

It also depends on the size of the tank, in spaces smaller than about 3' in length schooling fish don't seem to have the "unknown" around them that induces precautionary behaviour like schooling. Larger schooling fish would need even more room.

onepawnup · 05-09-2006, 11:22 PM

sorry i didnt mention it but the tank is a 55 gal

Raskolnikov · 05-10-2006, 07:36 AM

There really just isn't enought room in a home aqurium such as that to bring about the need for schooling behaviour. The farthest that they can travel is 4', and as SnakeIce mentioned there's no need to school when kept in a glass box away from predators with plenty of food.

The best that you're likely to get is some temporary shoaling behavior when feeding or if they've been frightened.

snakeskinner · 05-10-2006, 02:45 PM

as has been hinted to already, schooling fish school for safety reasons. Safety in numbers, confuse the predators. Without a predator, there is no need for schooling. If you want to force them to school, add something to the tank that would intimidate them but not eat them. Maybe a pair of Kribensis would cause them to school. I would think however that the gourami's would do this but maybe becuase of their slow movements they don't seem threatened.

as for the upside down, do you have anything they can swim underneath? Many synodontis will swim upside down and usually do so when they can swim under an overhanging rock ledge, large leaf's of plants, logs, etc. Give it something to swim underneath and you're liable to see him doing this. You also might want to add more. Usually I see more character from them in numbers.

BTW, you're liable to have fat catfish and gourami's and no tetras before long. Unless the tiger barbs finish off the gourami's before they have a chance. Tiger barbs love fins and extensions. Gourami's feelers and fins are great targets so just be on the watch. I did have a gold gourami that ruled his 36 gallon though and the barbs wouldn't mess with him. the synodontis that is normally sold as the "upside down catfish" will grow to between four and a half and six inches long and will likely munch on the tetras. as you hinted to, the pictus will surely eat them, they will eat anything that will fit in their mouth and if it won't, they'll sure try. Kyle

OrionGirl · 05-10-2006, 02:55 PM

UDC also swim upright as juveniles--they don't flip until they are close to 2 inches in length. I agree that having them in a group will improve behavior, as will providing floating foods, after lights out, so they can feed from the surface.

quenton · 05-10-2006, 04:56 PM

I would go for more than 3-5 more -- try a total of 20 or 30. If you have nothing else in the tank, you can probably do that.

And/Or try something a bit bigger that is not TOO aggressive. I had an angel with about 10 neons and the neons schooled. I removed the angel after that was reduced to 8 neons (I THINK the angel was responsible), and they don't scholl much anymore.

The things that can affect schooling are: space, number of fish, other fish.

onepawnup · 05-11-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionGirl

UDC also swim upright as juveniles--they don't flip until they are close to 2 inches in length. I agree that having them in a group will improve behavior, as will providing floating foods, after lights out, so they can feed from the surface.

How many do you think I can add considering my stocking already ?
again I can move the pictus to My 180

Lobo. · 05-11-2006, 12:05 PM

it depends on what type of syno you have... i have one of the largest (fantail syno) and it can get up to 8 to 10 inches, but normally 6-7 inches at the largest...
but many of the synos stay in the 4 inch range... its a pain to do, but it would really help you to know what type you have, to do this, visit plannet catfish.com its a great site

05-09-2006, 10:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
onepawnup new but learning Join Date: May 2006 Location: TEXAS Posts: 34	Schooling fish not schooling I have 9 tiger barbs and 6 neon tetras that dont seem to really school , also Have an upside down catfish that ive only seen in the upright position Im thinking that i dont have anything in the tank large enough to scare them into schooling other than the above the tank has one gold gourami 3 opaline gourami 2 paradise gaourami 2 pictus cats (4inch) will move when larger 4 otto cats 3 baby black mollies 5 guppies anything I can add that will make them school ? fyi I have no luck with angels Thanks in advance Onepawnup

05-10-2006, 07:36 AM	#5 (permalink)
Raskolnikov No, I didn't say that. Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 257	There really just isn't enought room in a home aqurium such as that to bring about the need for schooling behaviour. The farthest that they can travel is 4', and as SnakeIce mentioned there's no need to school when kept in a glass box away from predators with plenty of food. The best that you're likely to get is some temporary shoaling behavior when feeding or if they've been frightened. __________________ Before the Boogeyman goes to sleep at night, he checks his closet for ME. Got Predators? Click here.

05-10-2006, 02:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
snakeskinner Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Okarche, Oklahoma Posts: 16	as has been hinted to already, schooling fish school for safety reasons. Safety in numbers, confuse the predators. Without a predator, there is no need for schooling. If you want to force them to school, add something to the tank that would intimidate them but not eat them. Maybe a pair of Kribensis would cause them to school. I would think however that the gourami's would do this but maybe becuase of their slow movements they don't seem threatened. as for the upside down, do you have anything they can swim underneath? Many synodontis will swim upside down and usually do so when they can swim under an overhanging rock ledge, large leaf's of plants, logs, etc. Give it something to swim underneath and you're liable to see him doing this. You also might want to add more. Usually I see more character from them in numbers. BTW, you're liable to have fat catfish and gourami's and no tetras before long. Unless the tiger barbs finish off the gourami's before they have a chance. Tiger barbs love fins and extensions. Gourami's feelers and fins are great targets so just be on the watch. I did have a gold gourami that ruled his 36 gallon though and the barbs wouldn't mess with him. the synodontis that is normally sold as the "upside down catfish" will grow to between four and a half and six inches long and will likely munch on the tetras. as you hinted to, the pictus will surely eat them, they will eat anything that will fit in their mouth and if it won't, they'll sure try. Kyle __________________ Killifish, wild-type livebearers, cichlids, catfish, Badis, Bettas, Rainbows, Tetras, Barbs, Danios, Rasboras, Gouramies. Brackish: GSP, Bumblebee Gobies, 3-gallon micro-reef tank. 3-gallon micro-reef, 37 gallon reef project... www.okcaa.org

05-11-2006, 12:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
Lobo. sheep in wolf's clothing Join Date: May 2006 Location: Nashville Posts: 563	it depends on what type of syno you have... i have one of the largest (fantail syno) and it can get up to 8 to 10 inches, but normally 6-7 inches at the largest... but many of the synos stay in the 4 inch range... its a pain to do, but it would really help you to know what type you have, to do this, visit plannet catfish.com its a great site __________________ "So long and thanks for all the fish!" The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy He was a playful guy but often used his ink at the worst times.

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05-09-2006, 10:44 PM	#2 (permalink)
joephys Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: auburn, wa Posts: 4,393	For the neons, try getting 3-5 more and see if its improves things. They are so small it won't really add much in the way of bio load to the tank.

05-09-2006, 10:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
SnakeIce Administrator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orem UT Posts: 914	It also depends on the size of the tank, in spaces smaller than about 3' in length schooling fish don't seem to have the "unknown" around them that induces precautionary behaviour like schooling. Larger schooling fish would need even more room.

05-09-2006, 11:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
onepawnup new but learning Join Date: May 2006 Location: TEXAS Posts: 34	sorry i didnt mention it but the tank is a 55 gal

05-10-2006, 02:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
OrionGirl Miss you, Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Location: California coastline Posts: 6,723	UDC also swim upright as juveniles--they don't flip until they are close to 2 inches in length. I agree that having them in a group will improve behavior, as will providing floating foods, after lights out, so they can feed from the surface.

05-10-2006, 04:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
quenton Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 173	I would go for more than 3-5 more -- try a total of 20 or 30. If you have nothing else in the tank, you can probably do that. And/Or try something a bit bigger that is not TOO aggressive. I had an angel with about 10 neons and the neons schooled. I removed the angel after that was reduced to 8 neons (I THINK the angel was responsible), and they don't scholl much anymore. The things that can affect schooling are: space, number of fish, other fish.

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