Big fish loss help please (I don't know if there is much I can do...)

[johnpeezy]

So today I had to to a major revamp on my cichlid tank, pulled the rocks, 50% W/C. But since my GF was at work I had to do it solo that meant I had to use a bucket and met all my fish for fear of crusing them. They were in the bucket for about 45 minutes TOPS. and place right back into the tank at half capacity.

It was just a run of the mill water change, I do it exactly the same each time, this time was diffrent then usual because I had to net my fish and there is a canister filter instead of my HOB (this was installed yesterday using the media from my HOB).

I lost all of my julichromis(3), and two neolamprogus birchardi, all but one of the other fish seem fine.

The one who is having trouble is my Synodontais birchardi, hes breating rapidly and almost floating upside down in the tank.

It there anything I can do for him?
Would you suggest I place him in a more stable tank?

My girlfriends been crying all afternoon, the other 5 fish can be replaced with some difficulty but I don't think I'll have much luck replacing my Syno, he's hanging on but it only by a thread.

what can I do?

[Tanks Master]

Sounds like you upset the status-quoe. Moving rocks around and removing the bottom layer screws with the beneficial layer of bacteria there. albeit a smaller colony then is/was in your filter it may have been enough for the right bio-load you have. as far as loosing some fish, there may have been something in the water, something with the new filter.. really anything is possible. When I do a massive change on tanks I loose a fish here and there, some take the change better then others... i hope this helped some.. I know there's a better explanation out there..

[Tanks Master]

what also comes to mind... is that bucked used for fish and only fish and only for that tank? i've learned that it's best to have a bucket for each tank.. less cross infections etc... Just a thought.

[johnpeezy]

Well since you mentioned that I did actually test ammonia nitrite nitrate and high pH

ammonia = trace or 0

nitrate = 20 ppm

and then nitrite was up to .5 ppm and that was at trace for months and months.

my pH dropped about .4 from approx 8.0 to 7.6 which usually happens

the bucket that I used is for water changes and such not really fish, that was the first time I have ever had to house fish in the bucket as a temp holding cell.

anyway my little birchardi is still fighting, I'm not giving up on him yet he tried swimming and is laying upright again. Man I hope he makes it I really do love that fish.

[Bunny13]

When you were moving the rocks around you didn't hit any big gas bubbles or anything from anaerobic bacteria? I'm guessing that isn't going to be what caused it because they are cichlids and most likely diggers but you never know.

[joephys]

I doubt that any gas that was released would have killed the fish that quickly. Thats more of a prolonged kind of thing.

This really has mop bucket syndrome written all over it. Are you sure your girlfriend didn't use the bucket for cleaning something?

Every time I have seen something where just about all of the fish die after a water change, it always turns out that the bucket was used for cleaning.

[johnpeezy]

Nope the bucket was brand new when we got it. and it was bought specifically for fish tanks. Also my catfish has made it throught the night but he hasn't improved. Should I leave him in the tank? move him out do a W/C? or just let him hang

[wesleydnunder]

I always leave my fish in the tank when I do water changes. Most folks do. Netting a fish is stressful on the fish...so is dropping them in a bucket, then dropping them back in the tank later. I also leave the fish in the tank during rescapes. You seldom have to worry about smashing your fish when setting hardscape in place...as evidenced by how hard they are to catch with the net. The possible problem I see, if your bucket wasn't contaminated somehow, is the stress of being captured and put in a holding bucket, followed by possible osmotic shock when they were put back in the tank. The trace of nitrite you have had all along also causes problems for your fish, although that could have been a ghost and not an actual amount. Tangs can be very sensitive to pollution and changing water parameters.

Mark

[johnpeezy]

he died

[johnpeezy]

one fish is MIA I think hes a goner too but hes in my rock work somewhere. Should I pull the rock out and remove it? or should I leave them be for a bit and let things settle. I know I need to get it out of ther but I don't know if now is a good time to do it. There are still about 2 fish acting lethargic in the tank.

[Fractured]

45 min temperature change and stress from being netted out of comfort are all part of stressing the dude.

Did you acclimate the fish like you just bought them before placing them back in the tank?

Thats the only thing that comes to mind is the temperature shock of going from lets say 70 degrees to 75 degree water...

Being already stressed the extra shock could have been pushing him to far.

Also such large water change I would suggest in the future picking up Stability and dosing the tank with it next time you do such a big change... it will lighten the blow.

Sorry for the loss... Due to lack of info on your post I can only assume about temperature and placing the fish back in improperly.

Canister does not have its bio colony on those ceramic things yet ...but I doubt the impact would have been great being a established tank...it would have seeded those things and got them going .

Also the large change could have triggered a mini cycle... amonia spike... Ph changes... PH is a big killer Amonia likes to settle at the bottom of tank water too... the fish that died is not a species I had before..does it like to dwell at the bottom?

anyway... again sorry for the loss.

[Fractured]

Originally Posted by johnpeezy

one fish is MIA I think hes a goner too but hes in my rock work somewhere. Should I pull the rock out and remove it? or should I leave them be for a bit and let things settle. I know I need to get it out of ther but I don't know if now is a good time to do it. There are still about 2 fish acting lethargic in the tank.

Well make sure he is not dead... then leave things alone.

I still like to know if you acclimated them in .. are you daily testing your water with a test kit?

I assume you conditioned the water before putting it in the tank .. I hope so.

Currently I think you are in the waiting phase and hoping for the best...

Test daily... watch the PH and Amonia... especially PH.

[johnpeezy]

here was the oreder in which I did the water change:

pulled the rocks out
drained tank water into my bucket
dropped a thermomiter in bucket
netted fish
drained water
checked water temp in bucket was lower by like three degrees
re added fish (did not acclimate like I normal) I figured the temp was good
added rocks
added water

and since then my tank has stabalized but I still have been checking levels daily

[Fractured]

Originally Posted by johnpeezy

here was the oreder in which I did the water change:

pulled the rocks out
drained tank water into my bucket
dropped a thermomiter in bucket
netted fish
drained water
checked water temp in bucket was lower by like three degrees
re added fish (did not acclimate like I normal) I figured the temp was good
added rocks
added water

and since then my tank has stabalized but I still have been checking levels daily

You are pretty well informed on tanks. Do you think it is very possible there was a difference in PH prior to change and after? PH has been an issue for other tank users I have read and posted with on another board..

PH stresses were similar. Fish breathing heavy..lethargic .... soon as the fish was put back into a ph environment it was accustomed to the breathing went back to normal. Situation was different ...but PH was the factor at the time.

It may not even be any of the water parameters all together just a freak death of a fish... Stressed out and just simply died from that alone.

If you did all that change ...put in new water that was Conditioned, kept temp nearly same... sounds odd that they all are freaked like that.

I wonder if it is remotely possible your PH was either very low or high before change (fish got accustomed to it ) then normalized but was different for the fish in such a way it put them in distress.

Anyone else think its possible?

[johnpeezy]

The pH dropped from about 8.2 down to about 7.8, it happen every W/C and yes it does stress them a bit but in about five to ten minutes there motoring around the tank and happy as all heck...

I honestly think it was due to the W/C, change of terrain, change of filtration the day before, bucket, and re-introduction back into the tank all combined that made them bit the big one.