Fish Stocking

[J2FcM]

On a scale of 1 to Too Many

what would you rank this;

30 gallons
(+ I think 30lbs live sand for Blenny action?)

pair of Maroon Clowns
pair of Domino Damsels
1 Scooter Blenny
1 Jawfish
1 Bi Color Blenny
1 Lawn Mower Blenny


I am not a saltwater man yet... but I am guessing this border lines on 8 - Too Many.

Removal of Lawnmower and another Blenny make a difference?

[OrionGirl]

Yeah, too many. The maroons won't do well in a 30--they're some of the biggest and most aggressive clowns.

Damsels will probably cause a lot of problems as well. They're very territorial, and in a tank that size, smaller fish won't have any place to hide.

Scooter blenny's are actually dragonettes, and need big tanks with lots of live rock to thrive.

SW setups do best when stocked very lightly. For a 30, I'd go with 1 3-4 inch fish, and 2-3 smaller ones plus crustaceans.

[J2FcM]

Thanks for confirming... by all means it sounds like a bloody tank - the damsels and clowns royal rumbling.

Scratching the Scooter and Lawnmower...
would a jawfish(undetermined), bi-color blenny, and...

1 3 spot damsil + 1 maroon clown work?

If they are bought as juvies... a tank upgrade can always happen... as full grown I assume it would be "a squeeze".

What about over-all aggresion... I haven't read any stories of these 2 fish attacking each other, or blennys\jawfish.

thanks for the help as always OG

[OrionGirl]

Clowns and damsels are in the same family (in other words, all clowns are damsels, not all damsels are clowns). They are all territorial, some worse than others. They don't like to share space with ANYTHING--I've seen damsels attack lions and triggers.

I wouldn't put a maroon in a 30. JMO.

And while I can understand saying 'Oh, I'll upgrade before it becomes a problem", I can't really go along with it. Too often, something else comes up and the upgrade doesn't happen, or it doesn't happen soon enough to prevent stunting or stress issues. I've made that mistake in the past, and now won't buy a fish (or any pet) unless I have the space and attention requirements available to see it through it's expected lifespan.

[bencozzy]

pair of Maroon Clowns- id rather see you go with these over the damsels plus they have a better resell abilty if they are a pair, should you choose you dont want them
pair of Domino Damsels- this are more aggresive IME then maroon clowns even when small so i would skip them plus they wont mix with clowns period
1 Scooter Blenny- id skip this in a 30g as well, will be difficult to keep it fat and happy
1 Jawfish- youll be alright with this but give plenty of empty shells and rubble for tunnel construction and cover the tank they will jump
1 Bi Color Blenny
1 Lawn Mower Blenny- not the hardiest animals usually slowly starve to death

you could go with one of the smaller clowns from the tomato complex or percula complex(blah), you could add some gobies in.

[J2FcM]

cool - very much appreciate the advice. I have been mostly retooling a 90g so I can switch from a 50... Maybe would just make more sense to put the salt water critters in the 50 (if this happens)...

Also - part of the reason the Domino damsel makes the list - is because of his shape and coloring... but I have trouble finding good pictures of adults, which I believe lose the black and white coloration...

Even if I went "hardcore" and tried to get this thing setup I would probably only realistically look at the hardiest of goby\blenny, jawfish, and the maroon.

As long as I can accomodate a maroon (at most a pair), the jawfish, and a blenny with character then thats all thats needed to start.
As I understand it - the scooter blenny, and mandarin\spotts dragonettes look lovely and die easy. Do they starve because there isn't enough food in the live sand, or because in captivity they just don't hustle and bustle enough --> meaning they can't REALLY be kept in captivity.

What about Firefish? do they like to be kept in a posse? do they like to get killed by clown fish?

[Slick Fork]

Dragonettes and Blenny's are difficult to get eating prepared foods. They thrive on pod's and live mysis and have big appetites. The amount of Rock work you would need to support such a population of pods is unattainable in anything smaller than the 50 and even that's pushing it. I personally think dragonettes shouldn't be kept in anything smaller than a 100.

Those maroon clowns will get way too big for a 30 gallon tank, Damsel's are extremely aggressive and you will soon wish you had passed on them.

I don't know anything about Jawfish.

In a 30 gallon, if you want clowns I would go for a pair of Clarkii's, and maybe a smaller goby, a firefish would fit in nicely as well!

[J2FcM]

Thanks for the advice, I believe the poor Maroon is getting crossed off the list - or the 50gal is being kept!

What about crusher Mantis Shrimp??? A small one - so he can fit into a burrow. I know they need to eat crustaceans and such to stay healthy and survive molts... but would they try to bust a blenny skull in half?

[OrionGirl]

Mantis shrimp will eat anything they can get their claws on. They are not safe in community setups, and the eliminate every cleaner you could get--not good for larger tanks.

[bencozzy]

personally id keep the 50g youll be happier with it for SW.

now as a side point on clowns most breeders keep them in anything from 10g+, 15g being the most popular, note this is for all common clown species and also it is a tank for the pair only.

also with clarkiis youll have 2 5" fish as with the maroons youll have a big female 6" give or take and a smaller male 4" give or take, basicly either way youll have the same bioload of fish. from experience maroon tend to grow slower and get into spawning condition slower(spawning is when they become terrors of the tank).

you could always do a single clown in the 30g. also note clowns have different personalities one can be calm and cool and a different one can be a real "thug".

ok hopefully you get what im saying get the fish you really want. it is your tank just be smart about it. if you want a maroon for a 30g then get a single juvie.

[OrionGirl]

Note that breeders keeping pairs in smaller tanks don't have any other fish in with the clowns, and tend to do way more water changes than the average aquariast. Breeder conditions != community setup.

[joephys]

just so its clear to non-programmers, the "!=" means not equal too

[J2FcM]

OG - are you saying the Mantis would slaughter the blennies and such? Or by cleaners... stuff like shrimp - shelled things.

I was under the impression that the "crushing" mantis shrimp only attacked shelled things...

[Slick Fork]

A Mantis will kill anything it can. They are extremely efficient and ruthless predators. A mantis is better suited to a species only display

[OrionGirl]

All the mantis will kill fish. The crushers need the crunching foods while the slashers do not, but all mantids will take and eat any fish they can catch. In this sense, something like a damsel would be safer, because it's a faster fish less prone to perching on the rock, where a mantis can stalk and catch it.

just so its clear to non-programmers, the "!=" means not equal too

What, not everyone knows that? Sorry...The geek shows through.

[zanzimog]

Not much to add at this point, except about jawfish. They can be quite hardy, but several suppliers have told me that they have had trouble getting healthy pearlies/yellowheads from wholesalers recently. Duskies are doing much better.

As far as keeping them, they need a very deep sand bed (some say 3" minimum, others say 6", I use 6"). Because they are shy and are planktivores (so they won't pick stuff off the bottom), you have to be sure they are not kept with fish that are too voracious or aggressive, so they can actually get some food.

Regardless of the species of clown you get, you can probably expect the female to become a bully if you have a pair in a 30 gallon tank. As long as the other fish stay away from wherever they nest, it should not be a problem.

What about Firefish? do they like to be kept in a posse? do they like to get killed by clown fish?

Nobody likes to be killed by clownfish. Sorry, couldn't resist. They should be OK, but it depends on the attitude of the female clown.

I was thinking about cutting and pasting all the posts I've read from people wanting to extract their evil, nasty domino damsels from their tank, some even considering poison or explosives, but don't have time. They are some of the most aggressive of an aggressive family.

[Emg]

Sorry, this is offtopic, but Ben, I absolutely LOVE that blue "riccordia?"

Any chance of getting a frag ? I'd trade you for something I have, but I don't think I have anything as interesting as THAT !

[bencozzy]

its not a ricordia, happens to be a blue haddoni carpet anemone. not my tank either, my favorite pics though. if i remember right they are NooB's over at RC.

[J2FcM]

reviving the thread...

Would it be ok to consider Pleco's as being 3x their size in inches, when using the 1 inch per gallon rule?
ie. a 5 inch pleco = 15 inches. That is not to say - a 5 inch pleco will like a 15 gallon tank, because it is small... but in a larger tank it would take up "15 gallons" of waste space...

Also I have a question about the total stock of our new 90g tank;

Currently its inhabited by
2 Bolivian Rams
2 Dwarf Acaras
1 Paradise Fish
2 Cory Cats
1 Zebra Danio
2 White Clouds
1 Krib
1 Mango Pleco

my GF would like to add more Pleco's, but I wonder if 2 more is too much.
She wishes to add an L200 and L128, which both reach about 8 inches if I'm not mistaken.
The Mango Pleco grows to about 5-6inches.
So that's what I'm wondering for my GF and her pleco addiction.

For myself, I was interested in adding 2 triple red cockatoo apistos.
Finally, we were both interested in adding a Jurupari, but I have a definite feeling that will be the break point since he gets to 8 inches.
Any thoughts or problems with the above mentioned?

[Aussie_hippie_2]

Whoa, when did we start talking FW?