Back and Feeling Salty

[jojo22]

Don't forget the PICS!!!!!!!

[Emg]

Welcome back Tomm ! Good to see you again !


I didn't read through all the comments....it's late (for me..)....and I'm heading to bed......but I did read someone mention that tap water won't work.

I've been using tap water in my 29 reef since I set it up a year ago...so far it's been doing very well. I do however, faithfully do water changes EVERY week. That may have something to do with how well it's been going. I don't just keep adding freshwater to top off. If you're trying for an easy first setup, I'd give the tapwater a go to start off....and see how it does. My water is VERY soft though, and the PH starts out at 7.8........seems to settle at about 8.2 or .3...which is perfect. I also keep hardy only critters in the tank. So far everyone seems happy enough. Keep in mind, I'm no sw expert, just a cheap lazy hack...hehe......

I don't use a skimmer, but I think it would be better if I had one. For now I just use a pump from one of my useless whisper intank filters....to blow off the rocks each time I do a wc. I put a filter pad in the HOBs (two aquaclear 70s) while blowing everything off. I take the pads out after the dust settles and rinse them off and set them aside for the next wc. I don' have any media in the HOBS....just LR and macro. They're mostly for water movement.

All the best in setting up your first SW ! Definitely share some pics of the setup process !!

[zanzimog]

Hey Tomm,

Welcome to the board and to the salty world. I have been away, so I'm coming in a bit late.

As you have read, there is more than one way to skin cats, and people have lots of opinions. Here are some of mine.

Whether or not to use tap water depends on the quality of your water and your goals. Here in MD, I get 10 ppm NO3 and 1 ppm PO4 out of the tap. Yuck. If you are lucky enough to have better water, you can give it a shot. One risk that has not been brought up is the possibility of drastic changes in chemistry caused by work on the lines or the mood of the water people. DC started adding piles of phosphate to the water last year, which caused a lot of grief to some of the local aquarists. RO gives some peace of mind.

Honestly, though, in a FOWLR or low-light reef, a little extra NO3 or PO4 is not a huge issue.

I have used base rock to supplement live rock for most of my reefs. Works fine, especially if you keep the bioload reasonable as the ecosystem settles in. Another way of saving money is to buy online. A 45 lb box of live rock, either from Dr Mac, LiveAquaria or Tampa Bay, is about the amount you want, and will cost you a lot less than your LFS charges, even if you include shipping.

[tomm10]

So I thought I would give an update on the tank. MY Eheim powerhead and Seachem RO unit arrived last Thursday so this weekend was my first shot to set up the tank. The freshwater residents were moved over to the 10g last weekend and the 29g was cleaned at the same time so I got right down to business.

The RO unit puts out 35g a day but without any float valves I can't take advantage yet. I was filling a 5g bucket over and over. It took the whole weekend with that method to fill her up.

This photo was from Saturday night:


This morning I kept filling until I reached the halfway point and was able to turn on the heaters and powerhead. Then I took a trip to the LFS. I bought 12lbs of Fiji liverock and about as much base rock to help fill it out. I'm hoping the LR is good. The LFS insisted it was cured and since it smelled good coming out and was some of the last pieces in the tank, I'm trusting them.


I'm testing daily and the plan is to add a pair of clowns next weekend as long as my readings are steady and clear. Let's assume that the LR is good and cured, will I need to add anything to the tank for it to eat? Do I need to add ammonia or will the LR be fine for a week? Any thoughts? I could probably also go and get the pair of clowns during the week after work if that seems prudent. I'm thinking I need to test for at least another day or two before I do that though.

[OrionGirl]

I would dose it with some ammonia to test the bacteria in the LR, and keep it alive in the mean time. That way if it doesn't have a good colony, you know before adding fish.

[zanzimog]

The only concern I would have about adding the clowns is that it might get complicated when the time comes to add more live rock. How much will you ultimately be adding?

[Slick Fork]

Don't rush. Feed ammonia and see how the tank handles it. If it disappears right away, you know that there's a good cycle. If not, wait because rushing now will just cause you headaches down the road.

[tomm10]

How much ammonia should I dose with? <y plam is to come home tonight and check levels. If no ammonia is present, then I'm going to guess my LR is not showing a lot of die off and is therefore decent. Then I would dose with ammonia and check again to see progress tomorrow. I don't want to dose to induce a cycle, just to check the LR.

I don't know that I'll add a whole lot more live rock right now. I may add one or two more pieces from the same source this week. If I don't do that then I may not add more for a little while.

[OrionGirl]

I'd dose enough to get at least 1 ppm. You'll have to add some and test, but it shouldn't require too much.

[tomm10]

Well, the tank handled the ammonia I added just fine and I was showing zero late the next day. I did add another giant hunk of 8lb LR before that which I'm sure helped.

So, now my tank sits with 20lbs of LR and a pair of clownfish! They've been in a couple of days and have settled pretty well.

Pictures to follow soon!

[tomm10]

So here's the update and pics. I've added two neon blue gobies and a coral reef beauty angel. I think we're through now until its time for a cleaning crew in a bit.

I moved on this faster than I probably should have but clean tank readings since I set it up have removed the small patient side of me. I do have some questions for you all though.

First, I have an interest in getting a hairy mushroom or some other kind of hardy coral for the clowns. I hear that coral beauties can damage soft corals though. Would the mushroom be in danger?

Second, I'd love suggestions on a cleaning crew. My initial thought was a couple of hermits and a couple of turbo snails. Would shrimp make it in this tank?

Overall shot:


Clown eating:


Coral Beauty:


Another Clown:


Yet Another:

[Emg]

Nice fish Tomm !

I don't think there will be a problem with the clowns and shrimp, but I'm not sure about the angelfish. I know I had two peppermint shrimp that got eaten by my 6 line wrasse.

As far as cleanup crew.....you could toss a few turbos in there, but I wouldn't put too many in just yet. It doesn't look like you have quite enough algae in there to feed them just yet...but, you will.....

Hermits....hhmm....I have a few hermits in my tank and I'm not sure how much they benefit the tank really, except to clean up any left over food that the fish miss....which, I suppose is a good reason for having a few. But, I think mine have done in some of my snails on occasions though... I'm not entirely sure the hermits are the culprits there.

[OrionGirl]

I'd keep testing--that's quite a bit of fish to add so quickly.

The angel shouldn't bother the shrimp. I'd go with something like blood shrimp or cleaners, simply because the peppermints tend to hit the microfauna pretty hard. And I'd wait--at least a week, pending test results.

For snails--cerith and nassarius snails are more beneficial than turbos, IMO.

[tomm10]

Thanks OG and EMG! Admittedly I added ahead of my own schedule. I found it hard to resist when the tank kept on handling what was thrown at it.

I had planned to and will continue testing daily at least through the first month. So far though, it seems as though the LF is pretty darn good out of my LFS.

I don't think I need to add anything for a cleaning crew for at least another week anyway. So, if the plan is for hermits, snails, and cleaner shrimp, what would your suggestions be for numbers and specific types of crabs and snails?

[bencozzy]

snails:
cerith-10-15
nassarius-10-20 love these and the indo pacific jumbo nassarius's
and maybe 20 astrea or trochus

hermits:
personally id skip em but scarlet reef hermits or blue legs work, if you skip the hermits you could toss a emerald crab in to help control alga

cleaner shrimps 2 would work

[tomm10]

Its been a while since I've posted an update. Largely because I had only bad news.
The fish were getting along fine as were the levels in the tank when my Coral Beauty came down with Ich. Unfortunately, I didn't have a quarantine tank or a spare tank to use for one. So, I tried to treat with Ick-Attack. As I'm sure many of you could guess, it didn't work.
So, over the course of a week and a half, every one of my fish died. Firs the Coral, then the Clowns, then the Gobies.
Needless to say I'm very bummed but I've learned my lesson. I picked up another tank to use as a Q Tank and every new fish I get will enjoy a 4-6 week stay there before they get into the big tank.
The last fish died three weeks ago today so I'm planning on leaving the tank fishless for another 4 weeks.
What's changed since the fish left town? Well my nitrates have gone up to 20ppm. Water changes aren't doing a ton to get it down but I'm continuing them. What I don't understand is that Ph has gone up to 8.8. Also, I seem to have a large colony of Isopods that have taken hold.
Any thoughts on why my Ph changed so much? It had been about 7.9 before.

[zanzimog]

Huge bummer, I'm sorry about that.

Not sure why the pH would go up like that. 8.8 is generally beyond the range of the buffers in the water. Are you dosing kalkwasser, washing soda, or some funky buffer that may raise the pH? How is your alkalinity?

An increase in isopods or amphipods is pretty normal. The predators are gone, so they aren't getting eaten, and are coming out of hiding.

[tomm10]

I'm not buffering with anything. I don't have a tester for alkalinity so I'm not sure there. I use RO water and Instant Ocean.

[Slick Fork]

Did you buy your RO unit new or used? How old is the membrane? If you have a TDS meter, check to see if the RO unit is actually doing its job. I had a mysterious rise in ALK and found that my membrane was shot. New membrane got installed and problem solved

[Aussie_hippie_2]

Originally Posted by jojo22

Well we all know how much to trust the advice from our LFS don't we??? Please speak with anyone who has verifiable knowledge (Calfo, Fenner, any big name) on the topic and they will tell you that using tap on a reef is the equivelent of of having one to many drinks and playing Russian roulette in a back alley on a Mexican vacation.

I know this is old, but it brings up a good point, especially in SW. No one way is perfect. Heck, my LFS tells everyone not to do water changes on their SW tanks, and their amazing tanks show that it works. I've followed their advice, and am seeing great results. We all do things a little differently, and that's how we all get such different results.